re: Conservatism and Free Markets
I’ve been rather busy lately and haven’t posted the kinds of wrong-headed declarations and substantive HERE rebuttals that many of you have grown to love. My sincerest apologies.
Today I found a juicy one. Take it away, fringeelements:
In the United States, people who are atheists tend to think for themselves more than theists. This is not necessarily a good thing. I would say that the hardcore theists are more free-thinking than the mushy ones. This is because they have internalized that “the koran / bible is the word of god”, and then from there think for themselves, which is to say they have developed intellectual defenses and arguments against secularists and atheists. Mushy theists generally cannot think for themselves at all, and so are pushed around by all arguments until they come to a mushy position.
But anyway, by becoming an atheist, you see that the people around you are amazingly, spectacularly wrong on something which is so obvious. This then casts doubt on all other beliefs they hold, and because of the collossal failure of theism the atheist begins trying to do something he is in all liklihood not prepared for: thinking for himself.
The atheist will get the easy ones right, which is to say the social issues. But he will probably be a moralist even though morality came from religion and there’s no reason morality would ever be coherent without an omnipotent being. This wastes time and screws up his thought in the same way as religion, and sometimes even more.
But where the atheist really fails is in economics. In the US the republican party, which is supposedly more free market than the democrat party, is also the more religious party. This is because the republican party is the party of the past, and has the characteristics of the past dominant ideology. And in the past, for a variety of factors, the US was more religious and more free market.
What will happen is the atheist will think of a problem, have no way to imagine it being done on a market, and thus invoke the intervention of a higher power (the state). The state is the default answer when someone cannot think of how something can be solved. So when most people think for themselves, they come to statist conclusions.
That’s why you have theists and statheists.
While I might agree on small points — that mushy thinkers of any kind will probably get things wrong, for example — this post is a fine example of pseudo-intellectualism, which uses certain tonal and linguistic cues to establish a thin facade of rigorous reason. Meanwhile, it skips from one implicit false dilemma to many others, wherein the range of possibilities are enormously constrained to accommodate a delusional and decidedly unworldly worldview. Let’s go to the tape.
Fringeelements, you said: Morality came from religion and there’s no reason morality would ever be coherent without an omnipotent being.
This is wildly incorrect. First, morality does not “come from religion.” Morality arises from social grouping (as does language, as does religion). When beings get together, rules of engagement inevitably follow. Moreover, morality has biological traces that far precede the advent of religion. Morality is present in what the average non-thinker would deem “lesser” species, who, to their great luck, may not be distracted by religious meanderings. Second, I implore you to defend your claim that morality cannot make sense without the presence of an omnipotent being. Is this because you cannot imagine yourself acting rightly in the absence of the promise of divine retribution? If so, you’ve completely missed the point about morality. If not, please — make your case.
You said: But where the atheist really fails is in economics. In the US the republican party, which is supposedly more free market than the democrat party, is also the more religious party. This is because the republican party is the party of the past, and has the characteristics of the past dominant ideology. And in the past, for a variety of factors, the US was more religious and more free market. What will happen is the atheist will think of a problem, have no way to imagine it being done on a market, and thus invoke the intervention of a higher power (the state). The state is the default answer when someone cannot think of how something can be solved. So when most people think for themselves, they come to statist conclusions.
Republicans on average are far more deferential to the state than Democrats — when Republicans are in power. They are only less deferential to the state than Democrats when Democrats are in power. Meanwhile, Democrats are quite consistent in their mild distrust of government. The evidence is right here — in particular, take a look at a chart titled “Trust In Government by Administration,” which shows Republicans drastically changing their trust in government based on who occupies the White House.
One explanation? Conservatives are in fact authoritarians. They like nothing more than a daddy figure in the White House, as long as that figure is deemed to be “like them.” Conservatives only distrust government when the person they perceive to be running their lives is deemed not “like them.” You’ll notice from the chart that this trend began with Nixon/Ford. That is, of course, precisely when the Republican Party strategically became what it still is today: an uneasy alliance of single-issue Christianists, status quo racists, and “free-market” corporatists, forged together by mutual hatred of egalitarian thinkers. Why? Egalitarians would upset a prevailing power structure that benefited Christians, whites, and corporations.
Meanwhile, I found that same passage of yours to be rather insight-giving on an entirely different level than you intended. Let’s refresh:
What will happen is the atheist will think of a problem, have no way to imagine it being done on a market, and thus invoke the intervention of a higher power (the state). The state is the default answer when someone cannot think of how something can be solved. So when most people think for themselves, they come to statist conclusions.
I do not say it is insight-giving because it is correct or insightful. Your premises are so laughably unjustified that there is no need to rebut them. Rather, through this passage (and further evidenced by your vague insistence that an omnipotent being is required for morality to make any sense), you have provided great insight into the limits of your own imagination. It shows that you, at present, feel that it is necessary to cling to some vague, easy solution (God) for your answers. I infer this because you then project that simple-mindedness onto atheists, who, without belief in a god or many gods, “will” use the state instead. You declare this even though there is no necessity whatsoever to that conclusion.
It is a common thing. One assumes others to be like onself, warts and all, even though it is perfectly within the realm of possibility — heck, it seems as plausible as anything can be — that there are others who far exceed one’s own limitations. I invite you to imagine as much.
—Dan